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Improvement My suggestions for Okam

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by kaktus14, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. kaktus14

    kaktus14 Peasant Community Champion

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    I have made a list of changes that I would like to see in the game. Tell me what you think about it. For those whole already saw my suggestion yesterday on discord I have added some stuff about castle raid and masterwort drop.

    1.Combat:
    Upper diagonal swing blocked corectly with normal swing stance.
    Left swing stance will no longer block right stab at all not even badly.
    Stabs blocked corectly by lower diagonals.

    Upper diagonal swings are really hard to distinguish from normal swings and its usually 50:50 if you block it corectly or not.
    Curently there is basically no way to change to stab stance if you are in any other stance which result in bad block everytime.
    Upper diagonal swings and left stabs became an ultimate circling method that is really hard to counter and easy to do.

    Glances for me and many other people became pain in the ass after the patch. You can glance pretty often even with normal swings or any other atack. There is nothing more annoying than glance a swing and get hit instead of hitting your opponent. I would like to see them tweaked so they dont happen as often.

    New bow animation looks nice but thats about it. You have less vision and its harder to aim. But the main problem with the bows is that you cant change to your melee weapon right after you shoot. This is really annoying especially for people that got used to the old one. I even heard new guys complain about that.

    I always hated bad blocks but I am pretty sure devs wont change it back to the good old combat system. So I am atleast trying to make the new combat somehow enjoyable and balanced. I hope Okam dont end up like Chivalry where devs didnt listen to the community at all which resulted in abusive combat that forced most of the community to leave.

    2.Progresion:
    I think we can all agree that we hated speed builds. New progresion looked promising slower atack speed and basically no chance to make an abusive build. In reality new progresion wasnt as good as I though. It disbalanced the game, made everybody immortal and slowed down the movement and atack speed too much. It made changing your build for certain weapons imposible if you dont farm respec points 24/7.
    While dedicated archers or trolls still can do their abusive naked builds. You can no longer manage skills and they are all set to 3 which favour some armor types or playstyles.

    If they would enable free respec points on duel server to test new builds I would be really happy.

    I would really apreciate if they actually reduced the skills to 1 or made them managable again. For me personally melee at 3 is worst than any speed build.

    Old progresion had only 2 flaws new players didnt have the full stats which made it pretty dificult for new guys and 20+ atack speed could get unblockable. If they just simply reduced effect of last 10 atack speed points and swaped skills to perks it would be a lot better than what we have now. I know we are not getting old progresion back but a few more points to make the game a bit faster would be awesome.

    3.Sounds:
    I would like to have the bad block sound more distinguishable from the corect block. Maybe its just me because I havent played in a while and didnt get used to it but I just cant tell if its bad block or not most of the time.

    I would love to have the voice comands a lot louder but I am pretty sure Fin is working on that like a diligent bee already.

    4.Lobby:
    Bigger chance for getting masterwort/respec points from chest could be really good aswell. I looted 6-7 chests on chest arena with bots in lobby and I didnt get a single respec points. While getting the chest is really difficulty and pretty much imposible if you do it without a teammate.

    More experience from the bots on gamemodes would apreciate a lot of people including me. After the patch there is basically no reward for killing them. I understand you want people to play on player gamemodes more but still why did you add the bot gamemodes in the first place. These bot gamemodes are a lot of fun but when you dont have decent reward from it you simply wont play it. When okam gets a lot more populated I doubt people will still play them if devs wont change it.

    Better loot in chests on lobby map and bot gamemodes would be aswesome. I oppened around 40 chests yesterday 4 of them were rare. I didnt get any single masterwort only a bit of gold, experience and some troops. I am not sure if I was extremely unlucky or not nonetheless the drop rate needs to change. I understand devs want to make respec points really hard to get but this just ridiculous grind.

    5.Upcoming features:
    They are planning to add feature called upkeep. Upkeep will basically force each player to pay certain ammount of gold every week based on how many members his clan has. They want to add this feature to prevent forming a big clans that could conquer the upcoming strategic map. Upkeep will eventually get so high that players would be forced to play atleast few hours a day to even stay in the clan. It will force clans to get rid of their less active players and keep only the best and most active ones.

    I dont see anything bad on clans actually conquering the strategic map. It should be about winning after all. When clan conquer 50% of the map the strategic map should reset itself. Instead of bullying people with upkeep. I know that people will be a lot more active when strat map comes but still we will have to kick atleast half of the TKM because of this especially if we get bigger. I might be an elite active player but I dont want to be kicked out of clan just because I went on a vacation or I just dont have much time to play as others.

    6.Money:
    Instead of upkeep feature I would much rather be able to buy new skins or build a clan castle for example. Beying able to hold a banquet on lobby map for certain ammount of gold would be amazing aswell :)

    7.Castle raid:
    I would like to point the fact that there is no way for atackers to push the last flag if there are more than 15 people on each side. Only way to win in this situation is to deplete all their tickets before you run out of time. But if you have more than 200 tickets on each side its pretty much imposible to do it. I am not exactly sure what would be the best way to deal with this but I have a few suggestions. The raids could be a bit longer, less tickets in general, slower spawns for defenders especially if they got only the last flag, if the flag is beying contested 50% of the respawn speed. I think its not a bad idea to make flag capture the same as in the new conquest.

    Literally nobody like sneaky morons I am pretty sure Ramses even quote me on this one in one of his suggestions :D One guy somehow ran throw our lines and took our main base when they didnt have a single flag yet. They even started to spawn there and tried to take all of our flags from behind. I mean this will be surely ok when we get a lot more people but atm we just dont have the numbers. Atackers shouldnt be able to take the flags that are not directly conected to the flags they already took. If you want to have something like this atleast disable spawns on flags taken like this.

    8.Maps:
    I know its not an priority but I would appreciate few more maps on skirmish. I miss the open field maps with few rocks we used to have on old conquest. Making something similar for skirmish would be awesome.

    Some smaller castle for raid that could be defended with less people would be something I would really like to have in okam. Especially when we dont have as many people before they finish strategic map.

    9.Last words:
    Well I hope it didnt get too much borring. I know how some people hate reading :p I would really apreciate if you could tell me your oppinions on these suggestions. I am fully aware that nobody will like everything so make sure you tell me what you like/dislike in the comment section. I am pretty sure that the only thing we can all aggre on is that we love the game :)

    I havent played okam in last 2 months and almost quit it for good. I think the turning point for me was that people actually missed me and wanted me to come back. I was really surprised how many people actually said this to me especially the ones outside TKM. I know I act like a dick sometimes and I will try to work on that no promises though :) One of the many reasons I almost stopped playing okam was that the devs never really care about my feedback and it made me really sad. I would apreciate if the devs made the time to read this and I am really interested what Pogo and Jericho have to say on these suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  2. Ouki

    Ouki Moderator Moderator

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    The new blocking system was a community idea, so dont worry too much about that
     
  3. Ouki

    Ouki Moderator Moderator

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    This is a solid suggestion tho, i was one of the guys who ran in behind to cap your base, it didnt work tho :D
     
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  4. GodlikeMarkus

    GodlikeMarkus Peasant

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    you forgot the fact that technically you can sabotage the raid by respawning over and over again
     
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  5. Crixus

    Crixus Peasant

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    agree!
     
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  6. kaktus14

    kaktus14 Peasant Community Champion

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    @Ouki Well bad blocks were not pushed by community but by you Guilotin and KC guys I imagine. I hope the combat will change a bit especially the blocking mechanics. It doesnt need to be exactly the same as I suggested in the first point but I think we can all agree that stabs and upper diagonals are real pain that is ruining the game atm.
     
  7. Ouki

    Ouki Moderator Moderator

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    Actually, i was against bad blocks, also they are part of the community too, the community also accepted it in nightly so theres no need to try and push the decision onto 1 person or 1 group @kaktus14
     
  8. Yak

    Yak Knight Community Champion

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    I hate the bad block system, slows combat down.
    Glances are the bane of my life but i kinda deserve it since I face hug quite a lot hah
     
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  9. Acri

    Acri Peasant

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    About glances. Yes they are annoying, especially when you try to hit your opponent after a succesful block but your opponent decides to try to spam. If your hit glances, your opponents mistake of spamming will be rewarded with a free hit. The most annoying f-ing thing ever. One solution would be that what if a glance would stop your opponents attack? It would act almost like a stun and your opponent won't get damaged. It would allow you to go for another attack. Or if thats sounds too complex, just reduce the chances of a glance happen like you said.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  10. Yak

    Yak Knight Community Champion

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    I see no point in aiming to cap flags in raid. Might as well just bleed their tickets instead, capping flags should only be in a liner fashion and it really breaks the flow of the game when the defenders are back capped.

    One suggestion by Emil I've seen to solve this is a spawn located before the final flag allowing the defenders to continue to spawn to protect the final flag.

    I think the reason for bots giving little to no reward is that people already farm them enough as it is. If you really want to gain levels then it encourages you to play an actual game mode. I really hope that once the strat map has been released that they revert the skirmish and conquest system to drop-in.

    On the matter of bots, I see literally no reason to have so many in the lobby. one of each level is the most I could see necessary just to help starting players. Would reduce lag as well ;)
     
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  11. Acri

    Acri Peasant

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    i think i remember pogo or someone mention an idea where there would only be like a trainer bot or whatever you wanna call it. A player could walk up to him to talk and then he would ask the player what kind of bot (weapon type, difficulty level) would he like to train with. So the bots would only spawn when a player interacts with the trainer npc first.
     
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  12. kaktus14

    kaktus14 Peasant Community Champion

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    @Yak The bot gamemodes are planned to have their own servers. You dont need to be concerned about the fps lag.
     
  13. Malecar

    Malecar Peasant

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    @kaktus14 This is a lot to digest, and there is a lot to reflect on regarding these points so I'll take my time to address some of these:

    I'll agree with all of your points on section one, especially on ranged (I spend half of my time doing ranged, so while I'm not dedicated to the role I'm well aware of its problems and bugs). Glances must be the main cause of about a third of my deaths; I'm not terribly satisfied when my sword doesn't go through my opponent's padded pants or his straw hat while he's cleaving straight through my scale vest with all the padding underneath.

    I've gotten used to the new progression system, and I do feel as though it's a little more equipment reliant after breaking speed a little bit (I still can't deal with facehuggers with high attack speed). I do lament the loss of skill management since that allowed us to actually dedicate ourselves to a role or even hybridize, which probably isn't a good idea since ranged is limited to using that crappy hatchet. So we lost some options there.

    If we're going to be relying on respec points instead of gold as the currency for shuffling around our stat points, then we need to be able to actually access those respec points instead of them being held in a magic vault where there's basically a Rockefeller determining our rations. I'm turning into a rich man in-game but I've got nothing to spend this money on.

    Upkeep is not a good concept. The point of the strategic map in the first place should be to establish your hegemony over as much territory as possible and keep it secure. With upkeep, the strat map is going to look like the HRE. Powers should wax and wane, but they shouldn't have an arbitrary tax placed on them by Pogo-pope. There ain't no Pope on the strat map (unless someone makes a clan and the leader declares himself the Pope).

    Good post kak, let's hope we take something from this and learn from it.
     
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  14. kaktus14

    kaktus14 Peasant Community Champion

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    @Maleracar Thanks for the answer :) Respec points beying held in a magic vault and Pogo-pope made me laugh. I think you described it in a way I would love to but I couldnt due to insufficient knowledge of english.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  15. Tobi

    Tobi Peasant Community Champion

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    I think the block system is bad. All the diagonal stances are great on the eye but in a competitive place they should be blocked by the typical 4 direction system.
     
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  16. kaktus14

    kaktus14 Peasant Community Champion

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    @Tobi Well like I said in the post there is not way the devs would go back to the good old combat. Fixing upper diagonals and stabs is the bare minimum to make the combat balanced and fun. If they would fix the lower diagonals we would basically have the old combat system.

    Atm the 2h fight is just about keeping the biggest posible distance and trying to stab your opponent or hit him with upper diagonal to make him bad block. When he block badly you just circle him and if he blocks corectly you back off and do the same thing all over again until you kill him. This has been caused by the bad blocks. Because there is just no chance to block all the atacks corectly so you need to keep the biggest posible distance because if you dont you get easilly hit from the side after the bad block. In my oppinon bad blocks caused that fights are no longer fluid and hit and run strategy is the supperior one. Not to mention easier ganking.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  17. Malecar

    Malecar Peasant

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    That's what I didn't like about fighting now, and somebody managed to put into words coherently. Reliance on attack speed has just changed to reliance on movement speed (IE circling around you) and forcing bad blocks by hitting with a direction that it seems you can't actually properly block against most of the time, and then doing a string of stabs and lower/upper diagonals. Some mouse dragging makes up for the attack speed loss in stat point distribution. As much as I love to parry since it throws people off and can get them killed, it's still unreliable due to feinting and it isn't a solution.

    Reducing the effectiveness of health before the combat rework (I believe the stat would start giving greatly diminished returns at above 20) has also contributed to the appearance of the hit-and-run style, which I'm guilty of using. The current "meta" feels forced if anything, and there isn't enough variety in playstyles because of it. Seems like the only acceptable thing to use a Knightly Coat of Plates and some variation of a two-handed sword.
     
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  18. kaktus14

    kaktus14 Peasant Community Champion

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    @Malecar I would say that 2h is for the most skilled players only. You should stick to archery and make some sick archer build or you could go for 1h + shield. Shielders can block pretty easilly but they are really limited by reach which can make you really salty if you play against some good 2h.
     
  19. Malecar

    Malecar Peasant

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    ehehehehe

    There's a reason everyone uses them, and it's not because they're the most elite of players with hundreds of hours logged. They're just the best at everything, hands down. The rest of the options in melee are inferior to them for various reasons; length, speed, stances used, weight and encumbrance, damage types used.

    Polearms can't even parry, and the one-handed sword parry is awkward to use because of how long the animation is. Shields make you fat and slow your swing speed with their weight and encumbrance (since ideally you'd want to use the kite shield for as much coverage as possible and it can block lower diagonals without moving too much). Of course, since they're slow (unless they're in light armor), it's easy to torture a shielder and run circles around them until they lose their shield, but that won't matter much since they don't have any range anyway - that shield allows them to move in and allows them to apply pressure.

    We talked about this earlier, but there isn't really a reason to play dedicated ranged with their quality of life issues. The damage is fine for both bows and crossbows, but that's where the pros essentially end. You can't judge where your bow's projectile is going to land once it has been loosed, the animation is not as smooth as it was before, and reloading is slower for both weapons. Crossbows are loaded with bugs that nobody cares about since nobody wants to use them seriously. Aiming with a crossbow is better than what is was before in that where the projectile would actually go to was completely unintuitive despite where you were aiming, but that's about it. The delayed weapon switch to the small axe has also forced me to either accept my death whenever someone has entered within 10 meters of me, or I become a marathon runner.
     
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  20. kaktus14

    kaktus14 Peasant Community Champion

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    @Malecar Haha so true you should post the stuff with the bow on discord suggestions. Btw I dont think 1h+shield is bad if you stay in groups shield is a lot better than 2h and you block a lot of hits with the shield aswell.