Bad Block Vote

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by pogosan, Jul 19, 2017.

?

Which option do you prefer?

  1. Keep the system as it is now. Every bad block slows you down the same.

  2. Add a bad block multiplier. Every bad block in a row slows you down even more.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. pogosan

    pogosan Developer Developer

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    If you haven't tried a new bad block mechanic, it's currently on our nightly! Basically, if you don't block using a single correct stance, you'll get slowed down severely for the next attack, unless you do a good block or your opponent doesn't attack instantly.

    Now that it's available on nightly, we'd like to know if you'd like it to be taken to a new level or keept as it is.

    There are two possibilities:

    1. Keep the system as it is now. Every bad block slows you down the same.
    2. Add a bad block multiplier. Every bad block in a row slows you down even more.

    There are pros and cons we currently see with both systems. The main are:

    • Pro - It distinguishes between better and worse players. If a player is clearly better than his opponent, he will be able to dominate him quickly, instead of trying to hit over his blocks. A series of bad blocks would result in a very slow movement, and a better player would be able to easily hit. Currently a semi-experienced player could be able to block with bad blocks for a very long time.
    • Con - Flow of the combat will be disturbed. With bad blocks multiplying, you can never get adjusted to your timings, since stance switching and attack speed would constantly change. With only two states of good/bad blocks it's easy to get used to your build and feel the hits and blocks, which would be extremely hard with technically infinite number of states.

    Please vote for your preferred option, and let us know about other pros and cons you see!

    If you're not sure which one to choose, please choose both! You can always change your vote later ;)
     
  2. Dodge_FIN

    Dodge_FIN Peasant

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    If you introduce accumulative slowing down we will start facing the same problems as with high atk speed in past builds. Ppl get too fast compared to your speed. Or that is how it sounds to me.
     
  3. Ouki

    Ouki Moderator Moderator

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    For the sole reason of fighting multiple enemies at once, gonna go with the first option.
     
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  4. Ramses

    Ramses Peasant Community Champion

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    How long will this poll last? I'd like to test out the system for myself but unable before the 27th of July.
     
  5. Crixus

    Crixus Peasant

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    Well, my real intention was: it doesnt matter how fast your enemy is and how slow you are. If your enemy does a bad block, its your turn again. ( like now if you block then its your turn does not matter how fast or slow someone is.) and additional to this for every bad block you should get slower and slower that you have a real pressure to get out of this situation as fast as possible (with a good block). For me fights would be more exciting, it's more combo based and provides more potential. To sum this up: i dont want such a huge slowdown for every bad block you would already have a big adventage cause you can swing again.I just wanted to delay( like it is after a block right now) until you can swing again. So turns are changing. And if you enemy does bad blocks again and again you probably can 4 swings in a row. And then he also get slowed down so he really needs to come up with somthing or he will get real problems ( get hit-dead). This would bring a bit speed and dynamic in combat cause right now it is more hit and wait for the opponent to make his turn.

    Example: (Player A, Player B): A swings, B blocks bad, A can swing again, B blocks bad again(its slowly recognizeable B gets slower), A can swing again( still turn of A!), B blocks bad again (now stance change gets really slow and it will get harder to block),A swing again!, A blocks Good!, Now its turn of B and slowdown effects has been recovered. A swings.... and so on.
    The turn switch and the slow down were supposed to be two different effects

    So in hope you will probably rethink the current implementation im going with the choice "Add a bad block multiplier"


    Problem of the first one: 1vs1: if it will stay like current implementation it will have nearly no effects for a player which is much faster then his opponent. He can still do his counter and only the slow opponent will get in trouble -> Spam


    Problem of the second one: 1vs1: If you get slowed down so much, that you can't do a counter, then after 2 bad blocks in a row you will nearly stand still. And if you dont get slowed down so much and you can still counter, the opponent have no real adventage of this effect cause the opponent have no possible to force the enemy to do two bad blocks in a row unless he is really fast and spams... so much wow.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  6. Yak

    Yak Knight Community Champion

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    lol
     
  7. Yak

    Yak Knight Community Champion

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    what is this garbo

    one miss block is all it will take
     
  8. pogosan

    pogosan Developer Developer

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    @Crixus I don't really get how that's different though? If Player B gets slowed down, it's Player's A turn, unless he thinks too much and doesn't attack in time (doesn't do 2 hits in a row; starts blocking, does footwork, etc.). If slowing down isn't a turn switch, how do you imagine turn switch to work? I get that it becomes a little like fencing, but I can't really imagine another mechanic for switching turns other then slowing down.
     
  9. Crixus

    Crixus Peasant

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    "If Player B gets slowed down, it's Player's A turn, unless he thinks too much and doesn't attack in time"
    Thats not true. Pestdoktor and me tried this with right swing( if you have no mouse movement you automatically do a right swing, it's also the fastest swing together with left-swing. So Pestdoktor was the fast guy and i am the slow guy i atacked him and wasnt able to swing twice in a row. No matter how often we tried it.

    "If slowing down isn't a turn switch, how do you imagine turn switch to work?"
    sometimes it helps to have a look at what is already in the game. So what do we have that results in a turn change right now ? Yes you're right it's blocking! The current mechanic to archive this is, after your swing has been blocked you are unable to swing for a moment, so the guy that blocked your swing can hit you first. So i suggest, why dont use this same mechanic for new blocking system to archive to be able to do multiple swings in a row?


    So If A swing, B blocks bad, B gets the effect described above, A can swing again.
    to sum this up: Delay the time until you can swing again instead of slowing down

    Hope it's kinda clear.. sometimes i wish my english would be better so i could explain things more clearly ^^
     
  10. pogosan

    pogosan Developer Developer

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    It would slow down combat a lot if we completely stopped them for a moment after a good block. Instead, player who does a good block now attacks back with higher speed than he used to, and attacks with a very low speed when doing a bad block.
     
  11. Wrath of Mara

    Wrath of Mara Squire Community Champion

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    i think the reason 'turn' switching became less amongst experienced player is the same thing that happens in later stages of martial arts. you get to know your opponent well enough that you can exploit theirs and your movement.

    when i was brand new to the game, the whole attack and defend turn switching thing was brand new to me, but using the old "so called broken" mechanics, i learned how to now be able to continuously block attacks.

    if the game is skill based, it should require less mechanical intervention and more creative use of the system

    people don't want stamina, but also don't want realistic consequence of blocking shitty. as guirrotron aptly put it, if you let someone get behind you you deserve to die (in game).. you dont even always have to block to switch turns, you can use footwork either to recover your turn, or to skip the opponents turn.

    Pros: having a bad block system will bring out a new generation of parry users in which a bad block can then be recovered from using a parry, seeing as how a bad block slows a stance change, but a parry completely nulls a stance.

    Cons: people will always nit pick if its in their personality no matter what solutions are provided/presented.
     
  12. Crixus

    Crixus Peasant

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    "It would slow down combat a lot if we completely stopped them for a moment after a good block."
    Do you mean bad block?
    "player who does a good block now attacks back with higher speed than he used to, and attacks with a very low speed when doing a bad block."
    is this how it is on nightly?
     
  13. pogosan

    pogosan Developer Developer

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    From what I understood, attacker would need more time to start his next attack if his opponent does a good block, no?

    And yes, that's how it is on nightly now. We increased both slowing down and speeding up values on new nightly now, btw.
     
  14. Crixus

    Crixus Peasant

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    "From what I understood, attacker would need more time to start his next attack if his opponent does a good block, no?"
    No :D That would not help! Probably i really need to learn english some day^^

    if the defender does a bad block, the defender needs more time to start his next attack. So the Attacker can do a second swing.

    Edit: the current system also causes a turn change in every case then there not so a big difference between them unless multiplier comes it but by looking at the votes it doesnt seem so^^
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  15. Ouki

    Ouki Moderator Moderator

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    @Crixus can highlight there name and click the "reply" button to quote them, for example.
     
  16. matt menniss

    matt menniss Peasant

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    I don't like this idea in the slightest if I'm honest. I can see it being extremely frustrating and clunky feeling. A guarantee of slow down kind of takes away from the dynamic feel of the fighting. It's much better just swinging and blocking with someone wildly until someone lands. All this slowing down will just make it obvious what's about to happen. You know you're going to take a hit for it. Too predictable by that point and not satisfying or fun. I already get frustrated as it is with the camera pointing behind me randomly during fights unable to spin it around and I can see this "feature" turning me away tbh. It shouldn't get to the point in a melee game that you are talking about players taking "turns". That's not dynamic. Stamina for 2H is by far the best solution.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  17. Ferdnand

    Ferdnand Peasant Community Champion

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    Stamina wont change a thing, a 2h fighter with low stamina just keeps range or will retreat for short... I enjoy the bad block a lot, many player just blocked 4 directions left right down up - so it was very hard to crush their defense. big downside is the slow down on stance change after a bad block, fighting multiple enemys is very hard because the animation cant keep up.. maybe theres a way to slow down the next attack but keep the stance-change speed the same after a bad block?
     
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